So the HOP card has now had a good six or so weeks (at least) to bed in, and it’s interesting to see how things have gone. Most of the time people seem to use their cards as the system intended: I don’t hear too many “penalty fare applied” or see too many people forgetting to tag off. When everyone getting on the bus is using a HOP card the improved speed for boarding is simply awesome – you can clear 10-15 people in almost no time at all, whereas previously it would have taken 2-3 minutes to get everyone on the bus.
However, there are still some issues with the way things are working that could be tweaked through relatively minor adjustments – and some pretty big gains could be made from changing just a couple of things.
Firstly, while people using their HOP cards board the buses extremely quickly, my perception is that the driver console for issuing cash tickets is very slow and clunky – certainly slower than the old wayfarer system. This might be the fact that the drivers are still getting used to the new console, but it does seem that they need to push a lot of different buttons just to issue a single ticket. Surely on a touch-screen you could have a button that says “Adult 1 stage” then next to that “Adult 2 stages” and so forth, below the line have buttons for kids fares and then have further options accessed from a different screen. This would mean that the vast majority of cash payers could be processed really quickly. I’m curious whether other people also think that the new system is very slow for processing people paying by cash (or perhaps it just seems slow compared to people zipping on with their HOP cards?)
Secondly, we have to do something about the problem of people paying with cash blocking those paying with their HOP cards. The narrow entrances to many of Auckland’s buses (ironically the best buses are the older ones that have a rail creating two lines at the front entrance) are really problematic here, but surely some signage and driver encouragement for cash payers to “stay out of the way” of people behind them with HOP cards could be useful. There’s nothing worse than waiting in line forever with your HOP card while someone fumbles around for change, but the person behind them is too polite to squeeze through and tag on. Are there other ways of solving this issue? Perhaps a marketing campaign that “it’s OK to squeeze past” or something?
And finally, while the uptake of HOP card seems pretty high among university students (I guess the 40% discount is pretty irresistible) among many off-peak travellers (other than uni students) the uptake of HOP seems quite disappointing. Catching buses on the weekend, or during the middle of the day, sometimes you can struggle to see many people using the HOP card at all. Of course this slows the bus down hugely for the reasons highlighted above.
I think one main reason behind the relatively slow uptake of the HOP card outside uni students and regular commuters is because the discount on cash fares is relatively low – at only 10% (although quite a lot more than that for a one-stage ride interestingly). By international comparison this is a pretty low level of discount for smart-card users – as I remember being in London and a zone 1 tube fare cost £1.50 with your Oyster Card and £4.00 as a cash fare. While such a massive difference between fares is perhaps the other extreme end of the spectrum, it would make sense for HOP fares to be around 25% cheaper than when you pay by cash. Perhaps in January next year when Auckland Transport do the annual review of PT fares they might be smart about their fare changes for once and push up cash fares, push up the discount for HOP users and price monthly passes in a way that encourages as many people to use them as possible (by that stage HOP cards should have a monthly option).
All up, I think the HOP card has been a success – but with a few relatively minor tweaks it could work even better. The key is to get as many people using HOP as possible and to sort out the whole boarding process so that we can get people onto the bus as quickly as possible – that will make everyone’s trip faster and make the PT system way more efficient.
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Many commenters on AKT have proudly announced that they are “boycotting” Snapper-HOP until the real Thales-HOP comes in – and gone on to sneer at the people they’ll be inconveniencing by paying with cash. Is that a factor?
I dunno surely that’s not many people. Even Brian Rudman has a HOP card and he’s hardly Infratil’s biggest fan!
I would love to boycott Snapper (frankly I think it’s silly that the thousands of cards Snapper has issued will become usless at year end) but the pragmatic me has won over. The savings I get from Snapper-HOP means it’s finanically more sensible for me to use Snapper-HOP on NZ Bus services. I’m not fourtunate enough to be able to afford ingoring the HOP discounts… However I still go by rail (using my trusty paper tickets!) as much as I can — including my daily commute to/from work. I generally only go by NZ Bus (and thus Snapper-HOP) on routes where I don’t have an alternative operator.
I don’t have a HOP, but that’s because I catch the train 😉
In reality I think there would only be a very small subset of the population that even knows enough about the Snapper/Thales changes so it is more likely that people are just adverse to change. Many people, even today are sceptical of technology so may be waiting to see what happens and that it is successful before changing. Some probably think it is to much effort to buy one or to find a place to top it up or possibly they just don’t know how to. I would think some are also put off by the cost to purchase the card and the top up fees.
I think one idea that could be good would be for drivers to have a handful of HOP packs onboard which is a HOP card preloaded with $10 and info on how to use it. That way someone could get on a bus with a $20 note, the driver tags the card against his console, gives them the card and tells them to tag off at the end.
I think that’s actually a great idea. However one of the reasons behind rolling out Snapper-HOP was to decrease boarding times so I’m not sure if it makes sense when you consider that. Perhaps another approach could be to set up self-serve vending machines at major stops which people can just feed in coins/cash to get a HOP card with enough credit for a few rides.
Related to my comment below, I’m really surprised that there aren’t vending machines apparent. You should be able to walk up to a platform, feed in a note or coins, and walk away with a card.
The point would be that it makes it easier for people to get it and because it is already loaded up with money the whole process can be really quick i.e. person gets on and gives driver $20, driver picks up HOP pack from beside his console (contains brochure and card), tags the card and gives it to the customer. The whole thing could be done in less than 5 seconds and that person is one less everyone else has to worry about paying with cash in the future.
I think that’s a really good idea actually. Have $20 “HOP packs” available for purchase on the bus – $10 for the card and pre-loaded with $10.
Great idea also. Bus operators might have some concerns though as it exposes drivers to increased risk of being targeted for theft.
There are pamphlets on board the bus that explain Hop. Maybe the drivers should actually hand them out with every cash fare ticket.
That sounds like it would still be quicker than paying by cash, and that traveller would get all the boarding time benefits of the smartcard for all future trips.
I haven’t got one for the Thales-HOP reason, but then I use PT amazingly little despite having no car.
“among many off-peak travellers (other than uni students) the uptake of HOP seems quite disappointing.”
Forcible HOP-carding? You HAVE to take one when you get aboard and pay cash? 😉 But no, seriously, why not hand them out for free, and give everyone who registers one $5 credit. Sure, it would cost some money, but that would get uptake up quicker than most media campaigns. But maybe wait until the real HOP card comes out.
No, we cant give them away for free, The cards must be priced higher than the highest IOU possiable, otherwise the system will be abused completly.
Remember the cards cost a lot to maunfacture, so lets not be wastefull here.
Scott, not give them away regularly – as a one-off promotion. You can’t abuse that nearly as easily, especially if you have to register it.
I’m not sure a smart card costs a lot to manufacture. They are mass-produced, simple electonic solid-state thingies (my father, who is an electronic engineer, would cringe at that description). You can produce them in job lots like people produce newspapers. Even if it was something like $5, giving away 100,000 of them would be barely half their initial advertising budget.
As of 2009 it cost approx $10 to produce a snapper card (see here http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=30820&page_no=3#200622).
I think its better for people to pay for them, otherwise you will have people running their cards into debt and abandoning them. Of course I don’t think there is too much point aggressively promoting the snapper/hop card. I think aggressive pro hop marketing/policy should come once the rail compatible system is live.
I will never believe that. Do you know what goes in a 10$ bottle of wine? How much work, people, time? The empty glass bottle alone is more expensive than a hop card.
It’s a monopoly, that’s it, they put the highest possible price they could to sell it with no fear of competitors.
$10?! give me a break, in Boston they use a similar card to HOP and it’s freely given away, every bus has a stack at the front door, train stations all have machines with stacks sitting on top. If they cost that much to make then they certainly wouldn’t be giving them away so freely in Boston. If that’s what Snapper claims they cost then either they’re plain lying or they have the worst manufacturing deal imaginable.
I’ve never understood the ridiculous cost of the HOP card. Why does it cost so much? I can buy a 2GB USB drive for under $6. Subway gives away their simple barcode cards for free. Surely we could have come up with a cheaper more effective system.
One of the issues I’ve noticed is that many people don’t seem to realise that you can just leave your Snapper card in your wallet and just hold your wallet against the card reader.
Many people wait until the last minute, then take out their wallet, fumble for their card, take their card out, put it on the reader, wait until the reader does its magic, put the card back in the wallet, close their wallet, put it back in their pocket, and go on their merry way!
On the other ahnd I always have my wallet ready and I just hop on, put it against the reader, and move right on to my seat. I’ve only noticed a few people doing the same thing as I do but the number of people catching on is slowly increasing. I think the HOP team needs to do a bit of a campaign to remind people that there is no need to take the card out of their wallet!
I also think the uptake is a bit disappoitning. I think most HOP users are simply those that have converted from Go Rider. And quite a few people I know have bought a new HOP card despite having used Go Rider — they had misplaced their card and couldn’t be bothered finding it to get it exchanged. There has not been much real ‘new’ smart card users.
So I am not surpsied at the findings that HOP usage is low at off-peak times — this has always been the case for Go Rider. On the other hand quite a lot of off-peak passengers are actually supergold card users so maybe if we excluded those people the stats might actually look better in HOP’s favour…
“One of the issues I’ve noticed is that many people don’t seem to realise that you can just leave your Snapper card in your wallet and just hold your wallet against the card reader.”
Only if you don’t have any other RFID cards in your wallet. I have one other (a Cityhop card, free plug there), and I can tag on fine but the reader gets confused at tag-off so I have to take my HOP out for it.
I have my cityhop card in my wallet as well as my hop card too and never have had any problems (that went my fault). Ive done nothing special like touching my wallet a certain way up etc.
I have my daughter’s HOP card in my wallet too, so I need to pull mine out to use it.
My Snapper card is in my wallet – strategically positioned I have to say – I just hold my wallet in front of the reader and it works fine.
As for being behind people paying cash, I confess I’m getting rude and simply barging on behind them – it’s just a quick swipe and I’m on. Why should I wait for the cash paying users to fumble around?
I don’t know where you can buy them. And I read this blog! There’s Britomart, obviously, but the line there is always huge (no matter what time of day) and I’m usually trying to get somewhere and can’t wait more than a minute or two. The lack of staff at Britomart counter is a problem in itself, obviously. But I haven’t seen the cards on sale at dairies, and I have no idea how I’d get the student discount applied. In Australia it’s terribly simple – you buy a full fare card or a concession card, and if you have the concession card then you are required to carry proof of concession or face a fine (like a fare-evader).
Just look for a shop with a Snapper sign outside. There seems to be one in nearly every suburb but there are a few exceptions still. I live in Mount Albert and there’s one just up the road so I’m fourtunate!
I took a NEX bus from Smales to Britomart today ($4.50 due to the harbour bridge surcharge) and bought my ticket by credit card from a vending machine in the station. Everyone boarding the bus either presented a paper ticket from the machine, or handed over cash. Didn’t see anyone use a HOP card.
That’s because the NEX doesn’t take HOP! 🙂
I find its pretty good although one issue I have is that I had a RFID (or whatever they’re called) card for work and it doesn’t always recognise the HOP card instead of the RFID so it means I have to take the HOP card out.
The fare differential really needs to be increased for cash vs HOP. In Wellington a 2 zone far is $3.50 cash or $2.46 Snapper, the Auckland equivalents are $3.40 and $3 so the incentive is not there to use HOP just yet. Perhaps AT should look at adopting the 50 cent policy that GW have whereby cash fares must end in $x.50 or $x.00 and then look to increase cash fares more than HOP? The Snapper/HOP cards are also a lot slower to read compared to Wellington Snappers too I noticed when in Auckland recently..
That’s interesting because it’s supposed to be excatly the same equipment (for both the card reader and the card itself) in use at least until the switchover to the Thales-HOP system.
I am one of the people who are waiting till the Thales card comes out as I don`t use PT every day so it doesn`t seem much use to get a card that I`m going to have to change later this year anyway. I agree amongst people waiting for the bus, HOP card paying pax should board first. Maybe there could be a sign at bus stops advising those paying by cash to wait till HOP paying pax have boarded.
Ideally we’ll be able to get a phone app….
What form would this app take? To buy your tickets? Then you would presumable have to show your phone to the bus driver. Wouldn’t that be slower than Hop?
You’d need a phone with built in RFID chip. Apparently the iphone 5 will have it.
Until then you could go with the Air NZ solution (if hop offered one): http://www.nearfieldcommunicationsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dsc03648-2.jpg
In regard to the slowness of dispensing cash tickets, this is a “known issue” with the Snapper Bus Driver Console. Same in Wellington. Unfortunately it is something that Snapper can’t seem to be able to fix.
There’s no point for me in getting a HOP card until it’s usable on the train – I haven’t caught a bus for about a year and a half – and particularly not if I’ll need a new card before long.
Any word on how they’re going to communicate the need for Hop 2.0 to customers come November?
What I’d like to see is rear boarding at busy stops for Hop users. Simply station a staff member or two at each stop to ensure tag on compliance.
Unless they employed a middleman with whopping markups $10 is a little off the mark.
This gives an indication of what you would pay for such an item: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/452613607/Proximity_RFID_Card_for_Bus_System.html
Freight is extra.
That $10 price sounds like a total scam.
Any reason the back doors can’t be opened for HOP only entry?
I think the official line is for safety reasons. Though I’m not quite sure what the safety reasons are because getting off is only getting on in reverse…Perhaps the bus taking off without people getting on?
I checked my card balance online and found a $3 “pending” charge. I phoned the Hop people and they don’t know what it is (and are yet to issue a refund after 3 days). They have had the problem with other people. So some bugs in the system.
That’s a transaction that has yet to be processed by Snapper HQ. Perfectly normal. It’ll be replaced with the real transaction once it has been uploaded to Snapper’s system. Usually only takes a few days but has taken a few weeks in one case for me. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Hi all
This is a great discussion with some good ideas being put forward.
I thought you might like some input from Snapper as we set up and now run the system as it is in Auckland, and we have been running the same in Wellington for over three years now.
Speed of issuing paper ticket
– Issuing a paper ticket is a quick process using the Snapper BDC (Bus Driver Console).
– For example, it requires 3 button presses (cash – adult – OK) to issue a 1 stage paper ticket. For a 2 or 3 stage ticket there is an additional button press required to increase the number of stages from the default of 1 stage. So, it only takes 3-4 seconds for the driver to issue a paper ticket with the Snapper BDC. I am not familiar with the process for processing a cash fare with the old Wayfarer machines, but I can not imagine it was any faster than 3-4 seconds. I’m happy to be corrected on that.
– Check out the 10 second video that shows the process on the BDC for issuing a paper ticket. http://www.youtube.com/teamsnappervideo
– You will see on the video that the “buttons” on the BDC (Bus Driver Console) are large and easy to use. These have been adapted for the NZ market over the three years that they have been in use in Wellington, and now in Auckland.
– As others in the discussion have noted, this is more about drivers getting used to the system. They’ve all had comprehensive training before the launch of Hop, and there is test equipment available for additional practice.
Express queue
– It is still very much early days in the change over from the Go Rider card (a system in use for 15+ years) and the speed of the contactless Hop/Snapper card. An express queue for Hop/Snapper users will certainly develop over time.
– In Wellington, this took a few months. Snapper users simply started excusing themselves (mostly politely) past cash users, and it is now second nature for cash users to step onto the bus and stick to the left hand side while Snapper users power through on the inside “express” lane. This even works on buses with narrow bus entries. Again, it will take time, but it requires cardholding people power to make it happen.
Growth of Hop
– There has been strong growth of card usage versus cash usage even in the two months that Hop has been on NZ Bus services in Auckland. At a high level, here’s the growth in card usage in each service, comparing the average of the first month’s card usage vs card usage in the last week :
o North Star – 20% growth
o Waka Pacific – 14% growth
o Go West – 36% growth
o MetroLink – 25% growth
– Overall growth
o The number of active Hop cards is growing day by day.
o 75,000 were issued as part of the 5 weeks blitz in May and early June.
o Over 15,000 Hop cards have been ordered by retailers and are being sold through the extensive Snapper retailer network.
o There are now over 200 Snapper retailers in Auckland and nearly 100 more that have signed up and about to be installed – demand is high.
o See the Snapper map http://bit.ly/ictic1 for the easiest way to find your nearest Snapper retailer.
– Cash conversion initiatives
o We are about to test some methods for converting cash users to card users. At a macro level, we can tell which bus stops have the highest incidence of cash ticket purchase, and at what time of the day these cash sales happen. So, we can get quite granular about focusing efforts to talk to cash users about the value of converting to paying with a card.
o In Wellington there is a 20-30% discount when using Snapper compared to cash. Snapper usage is up to about 70% on buses that accept Snapper. While Wellingtonians’ propensity to use public transport is arguably greater than that of Aucklanders – due to the infrastructure and compactness of the city – the discount also plays a significant part in the value to the cardholder of using a smartcard vs cash. It is also so much more convenient, and it’s just the accepted way to use the bus – both from a cardholder and from an operator’s perspective. In the end the discount is up to individual councils and there is a fine balance between subsidy and continuing to run the services. International models enjoy greater discounts for cardholders as they generally have a market scale that New Zealand will never enjoy.
Smartcard manufacturing
– The smartcards themselves are a relatively advanced piece of technology. They are now manufactured in NZ thanks to a great partnership Snapper has with ABnote in Chirstchurch. https://www.snapper.co.nz/newsroom/2011/06/08/snapper-delivers-world-class-product-through-local-expertise-with-abnote/
Snapper or Hop through your wallet
– Snapper and Hop work great through a wallet or purse. There is a trick if you also have other RF cards in your wallet. You need to position your Hop card on one side of your wallet and your other RF cards as far to the other side of your wallet as possible. Usually this is enough to ensure that the RF of both cards does not interfere. http://www.snapper.co.nz/snapper-through-your-wallet/
Tertiary cards and concessions
– You can buy a tertiary card from the main tertiary institutes or Veolia transport centres. Check out the Snapper map http://bit.ly/ictic1 and click on a pin to reveal what products and services are available there.
– Cardholders will need to go through Auckland Transport’s process for renewing an existing concession or applying for a tertiary travel concession to be loaded onto a regular Hop card.
Slow card reading in Auckland
– I have used a number of Snapper cards in Auckland myself and have not noticed any difference in the speed of the transaction.
– What products are you using in Wellington and Auckland? Is it e-money or a travel pass?
– Are there any others out there that have experienced a noticeable difference in speed of transaction between Wellington and Auckland?
Thales card
– It is still way to early to know what or if a replacement card will be required. It is not in the best interest of existing Hop cardholders, Snapper, or AT to have another card swap given the effort and costs required.
– Snapper is committed to meeting the national standard (NITIS) which means complete interoperability between all cards and all card readers. If we nail that, then there is no need for a card swap.
Overall deployment
– Snapper is very pleased with the way it has managed the deployment of phase one of Hop in Auckland. This is effectively the third time we have managed a scale deployment
– The Auckland roll-out was an enormous project, and something that will never be repeated in New Zealand in terms of its scale and speed.
– This week we showcased the deployment at the Annual Bus and Coach conference. This included a video of how – together with our key partners – Snapper deployed in Auckland. If you are interested, you can watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veEuB15EgFQ
Cheers
Gabor.Szikszai@snapper.co.nz
Funny, I buy a monthly pass and I find HOP users slow me down when I board the bus:)
I’ve also seen a few people try to use the HOP card entering through the back door; the card-reader advises them to use the front door.
Wait until the monthly pass goes on HOP! 😉
I cannot see an advantage for me when this happens.
The current temporary replacement is ideal for me, I just show the card to the driver. I realise that there can be no stats derived from this other than where a monthly pass holder boards the bus.
I live and work within Zone A, and do not own a motor vehicle. To date this month I would have spent $240 if I was using the HOP card, more with cash, making the $130.00 pass very economic. My biggest fear is what value an Integrated Monthly Pass will be.
Hi all
Good discussion and lots to respond to.
Check out the “Tweaking Hop” post on the Snapper blog for a response to some of your questions.
http://www.snapper.co.nz/newsroom/2011/07/23/tweaking-hop/
Cheers
Gabor
Thanks for dropping by Gabor and thanks for the discussion of the points raised in this post. A tad disappointing that the general response is to blame bus drivers and passengers rather than looking at ways to further speed up things.
In my opinion 3-4 seconds worth of button pushing to issue a single ticket is far too long. With the old wayfarer system if the last ticket issued was the same as the next one, from memory they just needed to push the single “issue” button. And that was on ancient technology – I reckon you should look at a way of providing a “one button issue” for basic things like 1-4 stage rides.
I also think it’s incredibly disingenuous to say ” It is still way to early to know what or if a replacement card will be required.” The Thales card is only a few months away from roll-out on trains and NZ bus services – you know that, I know that. So stop telling lies.
Thanks Gabor for following up, good to see some dialogue between users and Snapper.
Hi
Sorry that my comments have been interpreted as ‘blame’. That’s certainly not my intention. These comments are observations about the adoption of the same system in an established market. This is a new system for Aucklanders and a huge change to get used to – more than 6 weeks. I think you’ll see huge improvements in cash conversion and cardholder behaviour in the next 6 months.
Snapper is keen to help out where we can. A single (or most likely double) button press could be an option – depends on how it impacts the rest of the system, if at all. I’ll pass it on to our product team. What is an acceptable time to issue a paper ticket? Two seconds? Any ideas how long it takes to issue a paper ticket in other established markets?
We may be talking at crossed purposes about the Thales card. My comments relate to a complete swapout of all existing Hop-Snapper cards – something that has been reported in a number of fora. Wouldn’t you agree that this is not in anyone’s interest?
We’re working with AT to find a way to avoid putting cardholders through this.
Cheers
Gabor
I think we want to make the issuing of cash tickets as fast as possible. One must obviously also add in the time it takes the driver to count out the change and the time it takes the passenger to dig around for the cash in the first place, so the ticket issuing really needs to take next to no time at all – 2 seconds as an absolute maximum for simple ticketing issuing I would think.
Ah I see we were talking at cross-purposes regarding the cards. Yes if there’s some way of reprogramming the cards so they can latch into the Thales HOP system, and a card swap can be avoided, that would be fantastic.
My comments relate to a complete swapout of all existing Hop-Snapper cards – something that has been reported in a number of fora. Wouldn’t you agree that this is not in anyone’s interest?
It would be in interest if we can rid ourselves of Snapper. The only real reason you don’t want to swap out the cards is your trying to keep as much of the business and the float as you can, it has nothing to do about what’s best for customers and certainly isn’t about what’s best for ratepayers.
Matt
We think differently.
1. The float is a liability, not an asset. It is money that is held on behalf of cardholders that must be able to be paid when a Snapper card is presented. I can tell you that the interest on the float doesn’t cover the costs of the team that are required to administer it.
2. We care very deeply about customers and the experience that they have with Hop. It’s why the Snapper team were out on the streets for 5 weeks making sure the card swap ran as seamlessly as possible. Everyday we received great feedback on what we were doing and how to improve it. Our business is much better as a result.
3. We are in a partnership with AT – we expect to be doing more as opposed to less in the market. Given the Auckland ratepayer has so far not paid a cent for the Snapper part of this work, I think that we are very clearly operating in the best interests of the Auckland ratepayers.
4. Wouldn’t it be in the worst interests on Auckland ratepayers if they had to swap cards out ? That is an un-necessary cost that would be much better invested in other Public Transport activities. We need to make the most of the funding that is available.
Miki
CEO
Snapper
Miki, can the HOP/Snapper card “switch over” to link with the Thales system? My understanding is no.
I believe the Snapper technology is compliant with ISO 14443 Level 4, known as the DESFire standard because of its use of 3DES encryption. This is a global standard that is very widely used for contactless smart cards in public transport systems. If the new Thales system is also DESFire-compliant, it should work on Snapper equipment and with existing Snapper cards. Thales would be nuts not to use DESFire, since it’s the most secure of all the ISO 14443 standards.